Travis read this in the book This Will Change Everything by John Brockman, a collection of essays that, according to Travis, are by people who are so involved in their subjects that several times the reader comes "close to not understanding anything."

Tapestry." Holloway used to be a bishop but he began to question the moral cruelty that was the result of the philosophical certainty of organized religion so he retired and now he writes books about the human condition.

In the interview (and I think in his latest book), he proposes that we consider the idea that when early humans became self-conscious they began to talk to themselves, in their heads, and they naturally thought that someone was out there listening!

I laughed out loud when I heard this proposal of where God came from—a concise and logical explanation that appealed to my atheistic soul, that is if I'm allowed to have a soul.

Unless there really is a God and he's laughing at us for thinking he's listening to our thoughts . . .

There's a lot of other good stuff in the show and you can listen to it here.